Name: Morgan Ashley Davenport
Date: 10/27/2008 08:08:23 AM ET
For me, it's hard to picture a grown man with a quickly decaying relationship
sitting down to write a poem that portrays a picture of perfect love. Having
read some of Catullus' more scathing poems, I'm inclined to think that the
poem in fact does present irony. I think the irony is well-hidden until his
last two rhetorical questions ("quis ullos homines beatiores vidit,
quis venerem auspicatiorem?"). Their love is so all consuming, so
fierce, that they have no concern for anything else ("uno in Septimio
fidelis Acme facit delicias libidineque"), and that seems dangerous.
Perhaps ironic is the wrong word. Catullus seems to be warning these two
lovers that everything may seem perfect now ("nunc ab auspicio bono
profecti"), but he seems certain that it won't end well. For example,
in line 21, Catullus describes Septimius as "poor" for prefereing
Acme alone, perhaps the same adjective he would've used to describe
himself after Lesbia left him. Acme's love is written in context of a
"flame" in her "melting marrow" ("ignis mollibus
ardet in medullis"), while "poor" Septimius uses never ending
empires to explain the depth of his love ("quam Syrias Britanniasque").
Here, I see Catullus' forewarning. Syria and Britian won't cease to exist, but
a flame flickers and goes out with the barest whisper of wind. In this way,
Catullus becomes Septimius, loving a woman who won't always love him back.
Acme, with her fickle love, is Lesbia.
Name: Staci McGill
Date: 12/06/2008 01:44:56 PM ET
As C.J. Fordyce says, the picture is indeed "whole and complete" as
well as "a picture of perfect felicity." This is because Catullus
systematically creates an image of Acme and Septimius sitting together
(Line 1&2) and then goes on to discuss their love for each other.
Septimius describes his love to be as passionate as the heat in India and
Libya (Line 6&7). Then Acme describes her love to be complete and
passionate (Lines 13-16) as the marrow in her bones (Line 16). But what
truly completes the picture is Cupid blessing the couple with a sneeze
which takes place twice, first in lines 8 and 9 adn then again in lines
17 and 18. All of the components added together creates a situation that
is "whole and complete" as well as "a picture of perfect
felicity" just as Fordyce says.
Name: Alexandra Strauss
Date: 01/01/2009 11:37:10 AM ET
I think that Catullus is being slightly ironic with his poem 45. After all, Catullus
has written so many poems that address love, and most seem rather bitter especially after
his relationship with Lesbia ends. Throughout his work, he rarely discusses topics in
a fully serious manner, except perhaps when he is in the depth of passion towards Lesbia.
Why then would Catullus all of a sudden seriously address a scene of perfect love when
his relatiohship with love is so far from perfect? I think Catullus is using this
situation in an ironic way, showing his bitterness through humor and mocking. Firstly,
the poem seems so overly romantic and lovey-dovey, something Catullus refrains from;
most of his talk is very straight and to the point, as he normally writes poems that are
short and to the point- a little snapshot in time. By writing this, he seems to be
emulating other styles in a sort of mockery. Also by using "Amor" as almost a character,
he sounds almost mocking. When he talked of his love with Lesbia, it was just life not
ome mythological ruler. Also, this idea of sneezing "Amor sinistra ut
ante
dextra sternuit approbationem” (Love sneezed approval on the left as
before the right) seems a little farcical and hardly meant to be taken seriously. Also,
using the word 'ebrios' (drunken) to describe the boy seems a little derogatory
towards love, comparing it with lack of senses. Of course, it is an able metaphor,
but one that seems crafted by a more negative poet. Calling Septimus "Septimus
misellus" (poor little Septimus) seems to look down upon him in a patronizing
tone. I get the feeling that Catullus doesn’t envy Septimus even though the picture
is of perfect love.
Name: Daniel Rasch
Date: 01/15/2009 10:53:26 PM ET
Although one of you mentioned earlier that it would be difficult for Catullus
to write a poem of flawless love due to his recently ruined romance with Lesbia,
I feel bound to point out that perhaps Catullus is writing this poem in a more
hopeful vein than his anti-Lesbia poems. I agree with C.J. Fordyce in this case:
the poem contains a "whole and complete" image of "perfect
felicity." Catullus presents Acmen and Septimius on a couch together,
wrapped in a beautifully romantic dialogue, speaking passionate vows of eternal
love to each other. Septimius swears that unless he is "prepared to
love you on and on continuously for all the years," he should
"come to meet a green-eyed lion." ("ni te...amare porro/omnes
sum adsidue paratus annos," 3-4; "caesio veniam obvius leoni," 7).
He proclaims that he will be true or be eaten at the ends of the earth
("in Libya Indiaque," 6). Vows like these come only from a
boy hopelessly in love. This vow certainly works on Acme, and she rewards
him with a kiss on "the sweet boy's drunken eyes, with her crimson
mouth" ("dulcis pueri ebrios ocellos/illo purpureo ore saviata," 11-12).
Here Catullus continues to augment the perfect romance with some good old lovey-dovey
imagery. And of course, no perfect relationship would be complete without the
consent of the gods: Cupid sneezes his approval twice throughout the poem
("hoc ut dixit, Amor, sinistra ut ante,/dextra steruit adprobationem," 8-9
and 17-18). Catullus seems quite well convinced of the perfection of their
love: in the last two lines of the poem, he wonders who has seen a more blessed
and happy couple than this one ("quis ullos homines beatiores/vidit, quis
Venerem auspicatiorem?" 25-26).
Catullus' presentation of such happy love contains very little irony as far as
I can see, of course excluding the fact that he wrote this poem after the end
of his relationship with Lesbia. This poem can be interpreted either with
happiness for the couple, or with nostalgia for the flawless romance of his
affair with Lesbia (see poems 5 and 7, when their only worries were the criticisms
of their elders). But either way, Catullus presents happy times in this poem,
free of cynicism, irony, or doubt of any sort. No bad omens or foreshadowing
hang overhead; the gods smile (or sneeze) on Acmen and Septimius, and on their
"whole and complete" romance.
Name: Natalie Beltoff
Date: 04/01/2009 11:31:24 AM ET
I agree with R. Kitzinger on his stance that Catullus 45 contains "various sources of irony", considering it was written after the time his relationship with Lesbia had ended. My overall feeling of the
poem is one of irony, especially since the picture Catullus creates of Septimius and
Acme seems to be a bit overdone. Particularly this is seen with the last line of the
poem, "quis ullos homines beatiores
vidit, quis Venerem auspicatiorem?", and a tone of irony seems apparent. Catullus's
numerous references to their undying love seems out of character for a man who is now
alone, rather it is likely Catullus is merely mocking love and making a bold statement
about its use. For example, Catullus states, "Unam Septimius misellus Acmen
mavult quam Syrias Britanniasque", that "poor" Septimius prefers Acme.
And although those words can be meaningful and happy, one simple word suggests an ironic
tone. The word poor used by Catullus could lead to say that Septimius is a victim of Acme,
trapped in love. Catullus may still be bitter from his breakup with Lesbia, seeing women
as the source of certain evils. Essentially, Catullus is mocking love, rather than writing
kindly about it.
Name: Caroline Swinyer
Date: 01/29/2008 11:06:45 PM ET
Though it has been said that pessimism is closest to the truth, I prefer C. J.
Fordyce's view of Carmen 45, and beyond that, Catullus’s own imaginings of his real
life relationship being as whole and happy as that of Acme and Septimius's. It is
classic of any writer to use characters from daily life in their writing or poetry;
here, Septimius is Catullus, and Acme, Greek for "perfect beauty," is Lesbia. If
his relationship with Lesbia was deteriorating, as evidence from other poems
greatly suggests, poetry—his other love—would have been an outlet for both his
anger and his dreams of how their relationship should be. The lousy usage of
stylistic devices, like chiasmus ("unam Septimius misellus Acmen") or the
repetition of the lines "Hoc ut dixit, Amor sinistra ut ante / dextra sternuit
approbationem," suggests a dreamlike, fantasy quality of the poem, maybe a
result of Catullus’s desperate grasps at what he wanted to be a fantasy relationship,
as it was in the beginning, sometime around Carmina 5 and 7. Cupid would bless
their love, as he did the eternal love of Septimius and Acme, and they would
find their happiness in each other and each other alone. The last two lines,
"quis ullos homines beatiores / vidit, quis Venerem auspicatiorem?" can be seen
as being laced with bitterness; who indeed has seen a greater happiness?
Catullus has, in his own life, but that happiness washed away, and now he wants
it back. But the only way he will have it back is to play pretend in a poem,
in a picture of perfection he can only serve to remember; Catullus's/Septimius's
drunken eyes and carmine mouth certainly remember ("ebrios ocellos" and
"dulcis…purpureo ore").
Name: Elizabeth Han
Date: 05/04/2009 11:17:30 PM ET
According to R. Kitzinger, "Some critics have found in the poem various sources
of irony." By overplaying the fervent love between Acme and Septimius, Catullus satirizes
such relationship as unrealistic as his and Lesbia's was. As Septimius intimately
holds Acme, he says, "ni te perdite amo atque amare porro omnes sum adsidue paratus
annos quantum qui pote plurimum perire solus in Libya Indiaque tosta caesio
veniam obvius leoni," (lines 3-7). He exaggerates his affection for her Acme
by claiming that he is willing to face the green-eyed lion alone in sunburnt
India if he is not ready to love her continually through all his years. While
some critics believe that Catullus genuinely felt admiration for this couple,
his last couple of lines vividly expresse Catullus's satirical tone. "quis ullos
hominess beatiores vidit, quis Venerem auspicatiorem?" (lines 25-26). By asking
his reader who ever saw human beings more blessed or a more fortunate love, he
is reinforcing his past relationship with Lesbia. If Catullus had truly thought
this couple's love was infallible, he would not have mentioned his failed
relationship.
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